Vblog - Protocol & Etiquette in Between China and the US

Where do you floss your teeth?

“In the bathroom, of course.”  Said my American friend.

“What is the difference between flossing your teeth and using a toothpick to clean your teeth?”  I asked.

“The motion is different.  One is stretching the string back and forth like a saw and the other is to poke the stuff from between your teeth little by little.” My friend said with a twisting gesture.

“Right.  And what’s the purpose behind both these motions?” I asked.

‘To clean your teeth after a meal, of course.” He said.

“OK, great, would you floss your teeth at a dinner table?” I said.

“No, that’s a bathroom thing.” He said.

‘Then why you use a toothpick at a restaurant?” I asked. 

“Every one does it here in China.  That’s Chinese etiquette.” He said.

Hmmm.  So what’s your interpretation of this story?  Here is what I would say:

If you believe the purpose of using floss as well as the purpose of using a toothpick is, in both cases, to clean your teeth, then you should do them in private.  No one wants to see you taking stuff from your mouth and laying it on the edge of your plate.  You are polluting the setting and ruining a wonderful meal for others. 

Yes, there are many people using toothpicks in restaurants in China, even some top business executives.  Would you say this is Chinese etiquette or a bad old habit like spitting in public?  I pick the latter.  It is a pity for any foreigners to think that using the toothpicks is part of Chinese culture and etiquette and pick stuff from their mouths in front other people.  When you ask if they would do it in their home country, the answer would be “No”.  The reason foreigners do it in China is because they see Chinese people doing it and think that it is part of the local culture.

This is the pitfall of learning and adopting a foreign culture – assuming that you’re fine if you follow the locals. The local Chinese culture is evolving and changing in today’s international, internet age.  What was considered part of Chinese culture may be completely irrelevant in a modern context.  Blindly aping behavior from locals is actually a reflection of ignorance of the real local culture and its fluid progression.

So, my dear American friend, if you don’t floss in front of people, then don’t use toothpicks at any restaurant, even if the toothpicks are packaged beautifully in an embroidered Chinese lady’s shoe as shown below.

A movie you love and hate

A freind of mine sent me this movie and he said "here is something you would love and hate."  Sure he is right.  For the moment I was watching it, I forgot all the table manner related rules. . .Instead, I was feeling very sexy about slurping. . .

Click on the file below and enjoy!

Download CHINITAOCUPADA.asf

French Fries for dessert?

You’d say I’m nuts. “Of course not” – you’d insist if you were a Westerner or had lived in the West for at least a few years. But, in China, anything is possible.

I was walking around the International Trade Center in Beijing just a few days ago and saw a place called “Chamate”. It is a tea place with some selected Chinese dishes including deserts. I walked into it and sat at a table near window looking out at the stores inside the Trade Center. I was very impressed by all the different teas they had – it was almost like a full bar cocktail menu. And a description for each tea reminded of me reading the poems from the Tang and Song Dynasty when I was little. And you didn’t see a single marketing word with the suggestion of “service, product, promotion or selling”. Instead, it was like a neighbor calling for a get together in the village backyard. And there were many people who walked in and out of this Chamate place. Business seemed quite good.

I was murmuring to myself “perhaps this is a master piece of how to do marketing in China.”

And as I flipped over the menu and reached the desert section, I was finding myself staring at one thing – French Fries, which was cast in parallel with some other Chinese deserts on the menu. And there was a boy with his mother sitting next to my left munching away at a plate of them.

The local Chinese people have no immunities against all the stuff dumped on them from the West. How vulnerable we are. No one told us that French Fries are actually just Western junk food. No one would ever place it on the table as a desert in the States, let alone in France.

Fascinating and sad! Fascinating - if the market can turn the French Fries into a desert dish, then anything is possible. Sad – as Chinese consumers have no guide for what to accept or not to accept. The only guide foreign companies have provided them is their marketing materials for product manuals. Chinese people have to do our best to make sense of them, with little to no context.

And it would seem that China is struggling. Or maybe innovating.

Once they were eating, people seemed to relax and arise from their dreamlike wonder.

This is my first blog from Hong Kong.  I moved here two weeks ago from San Francisco. Sometimes it seems like every day, every encounter I have is an opportunity to analyze the differences between the Chinese and American culture in general and Hong Kong and the Bay Area in particular.

It is, of course, an extraordinarily mix of east and west, completely distinct from either Silicon Valley or mainland PRC. The city is a fascinating, unique, inimitable experiment. Aside from the unique, specific circumstances of a majority Cantonese people living in a former British colony, Hong Kong is still an amazing proxy in general for the interaction of Chinese and Western Civilizations. It’s a city where despite the blistering modernity many Chinese traditions have survived better then was possible in the revolutionary mainland.

And all this cultural contrast was on my mind when I went with my family to Hong Kong Disney Land for a visit. Amazing to see this temple of Americana in the middle of a Chinese setting. My five year old was thrilled to see all the characters she knew from animated movies. My teenager liked the rides. I couldn’t help but be fascinated by watching all the different people participate in this context.

Appropriately, most people seemed to be from Hong Kong. I would estimate that as many as a third of the people were from the mainland. Only about ten percent of the people I saw appeared to be foreigners. While a few people marched determinedly to the entrance, many seemed content to mill around the fountain outside the main gate where Mickey was surfing from a whale spout. Everyone seemed to want to get their first photo done here by the fountain, while theme music blared from Tiananmen-like public speakers.

After making our first theme purchase for the girls of hats and umbrellas to block the sun, we too headed over to the main gate. An enthusiastic girl in 19th century outfit asked me for something in Cantonese and then switched to English, when I stared at her blindly. “Come this way” she said with a smile, “You have stroller.” We avoided the turnstile and thanked her as we passed through the open door of the ticket check. She curtsied a 19th century curtsey.

The first thing to confront as one heads inside is “Main Street USA”. Disney are the masters of fantasy and sure enough, as if on cue, I began to feel deeply nostalgic for the United States. Faux Victorian buildings lined a make believe town square. Of course all the buildings were movie sets, of course all the shops were just selling Disney merchandise, of course the hardscrabble mountains surrounding us were hills of Hong Kong, not the old west, but that didn’t matter. I had only just moved from San Francisco two weeks earlier and strolling about amidst the ornate wooden buildings I had a wave of melancholia.

A loud Midwestern US voice shook me from my day dream: “The Hong Kong Disney Railroad is now boarding. All aboard!” Interestingly that particular message wasn’t repeated in Cantonese or Mandarin, but everyone could hear the train whistle and the chugging of the steam engine, and everyone looked around and started moving toward the train. Everyone, ourselves included, now had something to do and we made our way up to the idling train. We clambered up with the crowd. Although there were lots of people, everything was surprisingly ordered. The movie-like setting seemed to improve everyone’s civility. We however, were not that well organized and between the kids and the stroller and the closing of umbrellas . . . we missed the train. Annoyed, I asked a chirpy attendant when the next train would be. “Next train in five minutes.” I wasn’t allowed to stay mad for very long.

We circled the grounds and were told in Cantonese, Mandarin and English about the dangers of AdventureLand and the dreams of FantasyLand and possibilities of TomorrowLand. Maybe it was because the audio narration was so loud, or maybe it was because many different people were thrown together, but it seemed to me that most of the people were remarkably subdued. No typically loud American banter, or sharp Cantonese chatter. The mandatory wonder and constant state of distraction seemed to have a calming affect on everyone. So while people seemed happy, they communicated quietly.

After the carousel and the Dumbo flight in FantasyLand, everyone was ready to eat. The food court was a celebration of princess pageantry and modern multicultural culinary convenience. I strolled into the rotunda and gazed around at my options: Sushi, DimSum, Rice Dishes with Indian and Chinese flavors, and a Grill with vaguely Western choices. There was no alcohol to contaminate the dreamlike atmosphere. Interestingly, although this was an American dream, there didn’t seem to be any burgers, hot dogs or pizza to be had. The menu was the largest concession I could see to the fact that we were actually in Asia.

True to a fake medieval mead hall, everyone sat at benches and everything was wide open. All the diners around me were in full view. Once they were eating, people seemed to relax and arise from their dreamlike wonder. Here at last people could be themselves, for better or worse. A group of large Americans behind us wolfed down their steak in large gulps, chatting away mid-bite. A man from a family of Cantonese speakers across from me was loudly slurping his fish ball soup. My five year old daughter looked at him and said “He doesn’t twirl the noodles and bring them to his mouth. This is not how we eat noodles.”

My husband had gotten a bowl of Japanese pork bone soup with ramen noodles. He made a notable slurping sound at one point and before I could speak my elder daughter was on top of him: “that’s not how we eat noodles!”

“In Japan it’s polite to slurp noodles when you eat. Everyone does it.” My husband made another big sound and I know he did it on purpose to make a point.

“But we’re not in Japan” I replied.

“This is China.” Said my daughter.

My husband smiled and looked around at the Hollywood set we were dining in and laughed. “China . . . OK. I see.”

“Yeah, we are in China now so we can slurp noodles!” My son added.

It raises a good question: How do you determine proper etiquette in a setting as surreal as Hong Kong Disneyland? Eating Japanese noodles in a US theme park, set in a former British colony now a Special Administrative Region within the People’s Republic of China one has to ask: what is the right protocol? Who is to say what the right way to behave is? As I thought about my daughter and my husband’s exchange it occurred to me that etiquette evolves in China and the West, we so often just follow our instincts.

We try to keep our standards high. These are standards that informed by Chinese civilization and Western mores. But in the end, we make split decisions in any context about what we believe is right and how we would like to be seen. It may be OK to slurp ramen in Japan, but I don’t like the sound and I don’t want to do it. And that’s the standard I set with my kids.

I know the old saying: “When in Rome, do as the Romans.” But I don’t think it works for me. It is not sufficient. When I’m in Rome, I’m still going to refer to my own sense of decency, and hold my kids to that standard as well. Even if the Rome I’m in is a theme park.

A comparison between the proper forms of business entertainment in Hong Kong vs. US

It seems that every project I venture upon involves the helping hands of many people, and this comparison list here is no exception.  I wanted to thank Beth Lancaster Fargis, the Executive Producer of Vassar College and New York Stage and Film's Powerhouse Theater, helped me to put this article together.  Beth is on the CAEA Advisory Board.  Thank you Beth for providing the comments for the questions presented below.

Entertaining for business success

Hong Kong - accept all invitations to lunch or dinner whenever possible. If the time or date is inconvenient, immediately take the initiative to suggest an alternative. Your success in business depends upon establishing social relationships.

Comments: It's as same as in the US.

Hong Kong - It is rare for spouses to be included in an invitation for a business dinner.

Comments: This is true and not true in the US. it depends on the company for a special occasion...spouses yes You can always ask...

Hong Kong - do not wear blue or white at social functions; these colors are associated with death and mourning.

Comments: There is no color stigma in this country (US).

Hong Kong - When social appointments are made, a half-hour courtesy time is allowed for most people.

Comments: in the US, People usually are expected to arrive at a social function @ 10 minutes after the invited time. If it is a business event as in your boss is hosting it at a restaurant you should be there on time.

Hong Kong - When invited to dinner, it can be appropriate to bring fruit, candy or cookies to the hostess; present your gift with both hands.

Comments: Not a hands issue here in the US but usually bring.. bottle of wine or very good chocolate.

Hong Kong - Greet everyone when you arrive, beginning with the most senior or elderly.

Comments: Wait to be introduced and always say hello I'm . . . It's helpful to give your name...

Hong Kong - After entering a home, visitors are usually offered tea, soft drinks or warm water.

Comments: In the us there is usually chit chat and then "what would you like to drink..say what you have ....wine, beer, bottle water, soft drinks.

Hong kong - Before starting a meal, guests should recognize the older members of the family.

Comments: No.  Not so here in the US don't start 'till the host and hostess sit down. Usually the host or hostess will toast...welcome friends etc.

Hong Kong - Giving sincere compliments is always appreciated; denying these remarks, however, is the Chinese way of accepting them.

Comments: Compliments are tricky in the US...if they are sincere? good but not just for the sake of giving one.

Hong Kong - Banquets are an important part of entertaining in Hong Kong business culture, especially for celebrating a productive meeting or new alliance.

Comments: Dinners here aren't treated as banquets... a business dinner is a business dinner, nothing more, nothing less.

Hong Kong - Entertaining business clients over lunch or dinner often takes place at a restaurant in a private club.

Comments: Americans expect to do business at a meal, not be entertained. It's all business.

Hong Kong - When entertaining, prestigious restaurants and banquet halls are the best choices. Moreover, first class hotels are usually appropriate venues for business meals and banquets.

Comments: I think that entertaining is something that is different for the two cultures.

Hong Kong - Placing the host closest to the entrance has its advantages. This puts him in a better position to oversee the servers. Moreover, at the end of the evening, the host is traditionally expected to escort honored guests out to their cars.

Comments: Not true here in the US at all....

Hong Kong - When sitting, visitors should place their hands in their laps and keep their legs still.

Comments: Yes.  It's same in the US.

Hong kong - During a meal, numerous courses may be served, so try not to eat too much at once. The best policy is to lightly sample each dish.

Comments: Yes.  It's same in the US.

Hong Kong - Rice is seen as a filler, so do not eat extensive amounts of it. Leave most rice untouched during the last course; doing otherwise will imply that not enough food was provided.

Comments: Yes that would be good here in the US... people don't eat carbohydrates a great deal in the US.

Hog Kong - Among the Chinese, slurping and belching at the table are perfectly acceptable: these gestures are perceived as signs that you are appreciating your meal.

Comments: NOT IN THE US.

Hong Kong - A very traditional Chinese restaurant might not provide napkins. Instead, you are expected to wipe your hands on the tablecloth. At such an establishment, leaving a messy tablecloth indicates that you have eaten well and enjoyed the food.

Comments: NOT IN THE US.

Hong Kong - Banquets are long, and guests generally leave shortly after the final course.

Comments: YES HERE IT IS PROPER TO LEAVE WHEN THE HOST GET's UP AFTER THE MEAL AND STARTS TO WALK AROUND THE TABLE.

Hong Kong - Tipping is not expected, but more and more people, especially the young, will expect tips for their service in hotels and restaurants.

Comments: in the US 15% generally and if it is great service 20%

What's wrong with taking flowers to a dinner party?

An inappropriate dinner party gift is –

 

1.      nothing

2.      flowers

 

3.      cookies or candy

 

4.      alcohol

 

Answer: b

Many people were  puzzled by the answer and asked me “what’s wrong with taking flowers to a dinner party?”  Mr. Axel Merk, a European gentlman, manager of the Merk Hard Currency Fund was one of them.  I though it would be interesting to share the email exchange between Mr. Merk and myself on this topic.

Mr. Merk: Hi Vida, after read about your blog I have a question for you –

What's wrong with taking flowers to a dinner party?

Vida: Well, the argument is 1) if you bring flowers the host will have to put down whatever he/she is doing to arrange the flowers in a vase - this creates more work for the host.  2) what if the host does not have a pretty vase handy?  What if other guests also bring flowers?  Particularly if you attend a formal and big dinner, the flowers may not be considered as the most proper gift by the host. 

Mr. Merk: Regarding flowers. Interesting what you say - I wonder whether that's the practical American culture. Often, I see that similar cultures are at times more difficult to understand than very different cultures. You take things for granted, when there are subtle differences (being married to a Finn, I know what I'm talking about). In the case of flowers - when I grew up, my parents would not go to a dinner party without taking flowers along. My generation is more likely to take wine, but flowers are still very much appreciated. For the younger generation, if one brings flowers, it is very much accepted for the guests to help get the flowers ready in the vase. For larger parties, one often has help that would take care of the flowers, so that the host doesn't have to do it herself. Partly because it is very common in Europe, there tend to be enough vases around.

Having said that, the truly well mannered guests do not take flowers, but send flowers ahead of time; or, as an alternative, after the party. When flowers arrive during the day before an evening party, there is no inconvenience during the reception. 

More important than what you bring is that you don't arrive early.

A few days later, I asked Mr. Merk if I could  share his thoughts with my blog readers, and he added the following:

Mr. Merk: some more thought on the issue, it is only appropriate to bring flowers to a larger party if you are fairly sure that there will be staff to take care of them; otherwise, sending them ahead or afterwards is the appropriate avenue. Reflecting on smaller parties a little more, it does depend on your judgment of whether you will be providing more joy or hassle with the flowers.  Given that you deal with very different cultures, you may not have encountered the other issue I raised much: how to treat someone from a similar culture. The fine points between cultures are often a point of contentions as they are ignored as irrelevant.

Conclusion: unless you really know the host well and know there will be enough vase around, flowers may not considered as the most appropriate gift for a dinner party.  Wine and chocolate would be very much appreciated by your American hosts.

The Top 15 Dinning Questions Everyone Should Know

Per a request from some of the readers, I am sharing with you about the wine and dinning etiquette questions which were presented at the wine event held on Friday evening

Sep. 9^th 2005

.  Please see below.  The answers are provided at end of each question.

Question 1

Your napkin remains on your lap until after the meal.  If you have to get up from the table during the table, leave your napkin on your –

a. Chair             b.table

at the end of the meal, you should leave the napkin on your –

a. Chair             b. table

Answer: a &b

Question 2

A formal meal can be more daunting than delicious with all of that silver and glassware to handle.  The simple rule to follow is to begin with silverware on the –

a. outside          b. inside

of the place setting and then work –

a. inward           b.outward

with each course.

Answer: a&a

Question 3

How you hold your wineglass affects taster and temperature of your drink.  Hold a red wineglass at the –

a.base of the bowl          b. by the stem

Question 4

At an informal gathering, the host serves dishes to his or her –

a. left                b.right

Answer: b

Question 5

What does it mean when people say-

Don’t talk when your mouth full?

Answer: which means don’t talk when you have food in your mouth.  Always clear the food in your mouth before talking.  It’s just simply not pleasant for other people to see the food mixing in your mouth.

Questions 6

In trying to attract a waiter’s attention, you should –

1. wait until he checks on your table

2. subtly raise your hand when he is in close proximity

3. get up from your table and locate him in the restaurant

4. call out his name or “waiter”

Answer: b

Question 7

The wine list is given to –

1. everyone at the table

2. the guest of honor

3. the wine connoisseur

4. the host

5. the ladies

Answer: d

Question 8

An inappropriate dinner party gift is –

1. nothing

2. flowers

3. cookies or candy

4. alcohol

Answer: b

Questions 9

The right posture at table includes –

1. sit up straight

2. Your hand (at the wrists) may rest on the table top

3. Support yourself with your elbows resting on the table

4. Push back your chairs and cross your legs

Answer: a & b.  re: c – you can do it when you talk but not at the time you are eating.

Question 10

Before you begin to eat, wait for –

1. your host to begin

2. until the guest of honor, the person seated on the host’s or hostess’s right, starts to eat

Answer: a or b

Question 11

When you want to drink during the meal, you should-

1. clear the food in your month

2. wipe your month before you drink

Answer: a&b

Question 12

When to sit down at the table-

1. sit down until receive your host’s signal

2. just take the chair nearest you if the host didn’t give any signals

3. point out a chair for each guest and say “please sit here.”

Answer: a&b

Question 13

When butter is being passed –

a. Cut a pat and place it on your bread plate.

b. Tear off a small piece of bread to butter.

c. Never butter the whole slice.

Answer: a.b&c

Question 14

At a formal dinner, the salad fork should be placed –

1. next to the soup spoon

2. to the left of the butter knife

3. to the right of the butter knife

4. beside the plate when the course is served

Answer: d

Question 15

If you drop your utensil at a restaurant –

1. go to the kitchen and replace it yourself

2. ask the waiter to replace it

3. apologize to everyone at the table and ask if someone has an extra

4. pick it up discreetly

Answer: b

Source: 21^st Century Etiquette by Choarlotte Ford

©Please don't slurp the soup.......

Below is a very interesting email I'd like to share.........

Sent:

Tuesday, August 16, 2005

9:37 PM

To: the wine group
Subject: table manners - please don't slurp the soup

Dear all:

Hope you are all doing well.  This is going to be a very special note.

I couldn’t help sharing one thought with all of you here – a sound of slurping the miso soup at our wine tasting on 7/10^th at Tokyo Star in Redwood City, has bothered me all the way till now. 

As someone who meets with people for a lunch or dinner so often, I’ve encountered some really sloppy eaters – I put them in a no table manner category.  But the loud sound of slurping the miso soup with the delicate wine tasting just doesn’t come together and can’t be tolerated.  That sound came right after Laurent (our tasting instructor) said “we can eat and taste at the same time”.

No offend to anyone.  Slurping the soup may be not considered as a bad table manner in Chinese culture – as same as eating noodles at Chinese restraunnt.  I feel I need to point it out so we are all aware of the table manners as an executive & sophisticated business owner.  Below are the basics of table manners every one need to know –

1. Don’t talk when the mouth full – you can run a test on this.  Observe your Chinese colleagues/friends when they eating and you’ll be surprised to see how high the ratio is.

2. Always make sure no food in the mouth when drink water, wine or any other drinks at the table.

3. Always use the napkins to wipe the mouth before drinking

4. Always place the napkin on the lap - except eating some special food like lobster.

5. Bring the food to the month. Keep the upper body straight.  Don’t put your head down towards the food.

6. Don’t make any noises when eating i.e. slurping soup, noodles & smack your mouth.

7. Leave the napkins on the chair not on the table when you go to bathroom.  Only leave the napkins on the table when the dinner is finished and everyone is ready to go.

More....

Please forgive me, if I am being too straight & direct here.

Again, this slurping sound has followed me for so many days and I got to get it out…….

Vida